Ep 17: Roots, Suits & Skills: Who Gets Hired in Cannabis? — The Shift

with Stephanie Pow · The Shift, a podcast by Headquarters

Cannabis recruiter Stephanie Pow explains why the industry's best hires combine plant knowledge, business skills, and a trusted reputation.

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Auto-generated from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability.

0:07 Cannabis industry talks constantly about growth. Mhm. But growth requires more than new markets. It requires the right people. And that is where many cannabis companies struggle. We regularly see businesses hired too

0:26 quickly, place people into roles they're not prepared for, promote individuals without giving them the support to lead, and then blame the employees when unrealistic growth plans fail. At the same time, experienced professionals are competing for fewer

0:46 opportunities. Job descriptions are becoming increasingly demanding and personal connections can sometimes appear to matter more than actual ability. Mhm. So, is cannabis dealing with a shortage of qualified talent, or are companies

1:04 simply failing to recognize, hire, and retain the talent that already exists? To explore that question, I wanted to speak with someone who understands both sides of the hiring process. My guest today is Stephanie Pow, a global cannabis talent expert and the

1:23 founder of Emerald Lane Recruitment. Since entering the industry in 2019, she has helped cannabis companies around the world build teams across cultivation, operations, executive leadership, and international expansion. Stephanie, welcome to The Shift. Thank

1:41 you so much for doing this. Yeah, thank you for having me, Filip, and that was a great intro. You nailed on the head some of the things that we see with talent right now, especially in the 2026 market and where we're at today. So, I'm excited to talk deeper in all of it. That's perfect. I'm really happy that you're here with me because obviously you do possess a very big pile of

2:00 knowledge and I really would like to hear from you on this specific subject which I'm pretty sure you're going to nail. So, before we go into anything, give me a little bit about yourself. How did Stephanie end up being where she is right now? How did Stephanie end up being in cannabis? Yeah, a bit of a a journey and the

2:19 twists and turns. I'm actually just celebrating it was my seventh birthday in cannabis recruiting in July last month and now in September it's my 10th anniversary of being in the cannabis industry. So, it was a wild journey. You know, I had a whole professional career for about 10 years before I joined the cannabis

2:37 industry. I worked for the federal health care uh Health Canada in in Canada. I'm I'm from Canadian I'm Canadian. Um I worked for Health Canada. I thought I wanted to do policy development. I moved down to the state level. I did cancer management, chemotherapy planning, intensive care, pandemic planning back in 2009 before we knew what was coming um and really got

2:56 disenchanted with how far the government was from the patient. Also didn't agree with an 8:30 to 4:30 schedule for the rest of my life. Uh so pivoted out of government, ended up in nonprofit, worked in breast cancer research. Again, saw how the patient was cared for and how much pharma was funded and pivoted out of that. Same time I wanted to be a digital nomad so I started to build my

3:15 life to be a digital nomad which led me to a few years of doing consulting and temp work uh on the Wall Street Bay Street of Canada uh where I sat on the executive floor on the I trading floor of large financial companies uh supporting the co-founders of international businesses and really got to understand what that looked like. Uh and then 10 years ago I needed to quit

3:34 my life. I booked a one-way ticket to Costa Rica and started a bit of a free bird life and while I was there I met somebody who said, "Do you want to come to Humboldt County uh and get to know the hills?" And I said, no. And then a few months later I said, yes. And so 10 years ago um I made the exploration over

3:52 to Humboldt County into the hills. I got to know the industry, the medical side of the industry, the legacy side of the industry, the OG's who really know the plant. I was really submerged in that industry and that place for a couple of years and then moved back to Canada right before Canada legalized and joined one of the first recruiting firms as

4:10 Canada was building the federal framework for adult use back in 2018 when we opened and then one of the first pioneering recruiting groups in Canada. So, that's how I fell into both the industry and recruiting. And then from there, when I joined the industry, it was the gold rush years. So, we are green gold rush, you know, 2017, 2018,

4:28 there's billions of dollars flying into the market, companies had huge budgets. We would get calls and reqs saying we need 10 people, we need our whole sales team, we're building a whole second floor of our building. Like, money was it, we'd have so many reqs on our desk. So, I really got thrown into the deep end of what it recruiting meant and we really recruited across all types of

4:46 roles while I was in that first recruiter role and I was very candidate facing. And through that work because of the boss, uh the woman I worked for in my first company, she had a lot of international notoriety. So, we were actually doing a lot of international searches back in Canada and this is all in cannabis. Um in 2019, 2020, I started recruiting for European companies and

5:05 South American companies within our team. We had UK roles within our team. We also were doing US searches for international groups entering the US. So, I was really getting this broad landscape of the world and what talent meant and what the people needed and what people we are bringing in and who are moving around and who are moving across borders and what new companies

5:23 needed and what maturing companies needed. And so, this is really interesting landscape and then, you know, did that for 3 years under that company, I transitioned out and now I've been on my own. I launched Emerald Lane Recruitment 3 years ago and since then now we've scaled to being in 13 countries, five continents and nine states and we continue to expand across

5:42 the US as well. And we're pretty bullish on the cannabis market and all we do is the people part. So, it's been a wild journey. I can't believe it's 10 years, but it's an honor to talk to you today. And I I say all the time, any wisdom I have, there is wisdom I've gained directly, absolutely. But, also this being in this place of privilege where I

6:00 get to have very confidential, high-level conversations with executives and and individuals across the entire value chain, cuz I am still doing some of the recruitment actively myself. I a lot of the wisdom, a lot of the knowledge I share is not mine. It's what she others who working and on the ground and in the roots tell me, and then I get

6:19 to share that back. So, it's always an honor and a privilege to share words with others on this because I learn so much from so many others who are actually there building this thing together. That's amazing, and I love the fact So, so this is in in every single understanding of the word journey, this

6:37 is a journey. Like, you really do have a journey behind you, and that's amazing. And I really do appreciate the fact that you are sharing the knowledge, just like you've gained that knowledge, which is extremely non-selfish of you. So, so that's that's definitely something that I really do appreciate. And I I believe a lot of

6:55 people that are going to listen to you would also appreciate. Um okay, so let's let's dive into uh the the aspect of what you were just talking about right now. And you know, you've recruited across nearly every part of the cannabis supply chain.

7:13 When when a company tells you it needs to hire, what do you look at to determine whether it actually has a talent problem or a leadership and business structure problem? How does that work? Can you explain that to me a little bit? Yeah, so we work with all types of operators across the supply chain. So, we work on all type of permanent roles.

7:32 We do not do any sort of staffing or temp work. Um we leave that to the others, but we do permanent full-time positions um from junior all the way up to executive. So, we have this really broad knowledge across and then across the entire supply chain. So, we are working with all types of operators. We just got to the end of our fiscal year, so I was doing some review of our our

7:51 clients from last year, who we worked with, who are our key stakeholders, and we work with, you know, mid-size companies, single-state operators, multi-state operators, up to Nasdaq-listed companies. So, we've really worked across the the chain there. And ultimately, when a client comes to us with a need, I find that

8:10 depending on the maturity of the business and the where they're at, so obviously the larger corporate corporation corporation types companies, publicly traded, Nasdaq-listed, tend to have more of a clear understanding of who they need. So, their mandates when they come to me are very clear typically. It's like, we need this role

8:29 because somebody left, because they're building a new department, because our, you know, our new strategy leans in that direction, we're opening a new market. So, sometimes it's very very clear. Other times, it's tends to be, and especially if it's companies that are in rapid expansion, new market entry, um new business entry, or owner-operators who are not

8:48 necessarily cannabis people, come to us and they're like, here's what we think we need. And so, we do spend a lot of time building out an org or not necessarily in the org chart, but the job description and really having that dialogue of like, let's look at what expectations are, where is your actual gap, and what do you actually need in

9:06 the market for that person to fill it. So, we do do a lot of that coaching and advising when when the right time is. Right now, we have a client, same thing, they just came to us, um they need some support on a a sales and commercial role, but they haven't actually necessarily had that function within their business, and they have very specific needs for that person, and so we're helping them

9:24 understand how to structure it, then we're also understanding how we put a job description and mandate and um key deliverables around it, and then ultimately how we build a comp plan around it. So, um because that's commercial and sales, that's sort of how we would work through it, but ultimately they've identified a a problem within

9:42 their company and then we can actually find the talent that's going to need it. Um, we don't offer right now, just being a small shop and just where we're at, we don't do any sort of like HR services and we're not necessarily spending too much time on the back end strategy side of things. We tend to get more of the

10:00 mandate and the specific talent role. Um, and so any of the challenges they're having internally will sometimes get wind on that, but we're really looking for the way that we fill it and then through our conversations, through our work, through getting the candidates through the process, we can sometimes hear some of the different areas, but we're really filling that mandate for that particular search or helping our

10:19 clients understand what that mandate really needs to be. Got it. And when you talk a little bit Can you specify when you talk a little bit more about the maturity of the company? What does that mean specifically? How do you determine the maturity of a company? Yeah, that's a good question. Often I say maturity with a a quotation marks um,

10:37 because our whole industry is a startup, right? Like I think I was talking to somebody this week from the Colorado market and I think what Colorado's almost 30 years and and and some of them since the early medical days, but that was such a different market, right? So really we've only really had markets that look like the way we've had it now like for 20 years. Um, and with how fast time goes in

10:55 cannabis, it's like that's a snap of the fingers and anyone who's spent time with a college person, uh, you know, they still have a messy room and still, you know, have their parties and and they still are kind of figuring out what they're going to do with their life, right? So I think we all are still in that phase, but when we look at maturity of companies, I typically look at it like what what stage of their business

11:14 are they in? So are they pre-revenue? Are they pre-operational? They just got a license. They're a retail license holder. Um, they just opened a new distribution group in Germany. They've just got a new license available in in, you know, Germany they didn't just do new licenses. Um, and so there's just like, you know, ways that like is it new? Is it pre-revenue? Right? There's a

11:32 specific talent we're going to need. And again, if we're pre-revenue, are we experienced cannabis operators or are we new to the industry and we're an entrepreneur or we're entrepreneurial from another adjacent industry and now stepping in, right? And so how we look at talent for both of those companies are going to be pretty specific for those groups. And then we look at more mature, so we can talk about markets. So

11:51 we all know the markets that have been around a little longer than the others, right? Um and we also can look at the markets that are new coming online. So obviously there's going to be some history and some knowledge there. Um and then also looking at the maturity of the business, how long has the business been around for? Um how, you know, how many years has it been in

12:09 operation? What does its revenue look like? What does its structures look like? And so we're looking at more of those mature companies that have maybe done it enough times or a few times and been able to take that knowledge and that team and move forward. Or are they taking people in those early stages um and we're still building a lot of that early stage startup. So startup, growth

12:27 stage, um and then sort of maturity and and and again, all of us are growing together in the same direction. Got it. Got it. That makes sense. And uh at the start of the conversation you did obviously point out that um when you also started working, uh there was this sort of huge influx of uh funds and into

12:45 the market as well. So can can we just sort of reflect a little bit on that one? Cuz cannabis companies often hire aggressively when investments arrive or a new market opens. Then they make cuts when projections fall short. What are companies repeatedly getting wrong when they build teams for growth?

13:03 Yeah, that's a really good question. So I was actually talking to somebody earlier today on executive and he was like, "Ooh, you're in the glory days in Canada." Like the the the the billion years. I was joking. Now we're in the million years, but we I was there for the billion years. And um and so yeah, so in those early days, you look at the Canadian market, right, which is a case study for the world. The US market had

13:22 this too. It was, "Okay, let's get billions of dollars and then let's build these massive teams." So an example I use is like I remember hearing about the marketing department for one of the large Canadian publicly traded LPs, you know, back in 2018, 2019, 2017, you know, they had 30, 40 people on their team. Now, that team probably is

13:42 a handful of those people, right? Um and so the money was just coming in for hiring and so those individuals were kind of jumping in on on the larger companies and this is happening in some of the smaller companies, too, because there was this promise of we're going to get bigger, we're going to get bigger, we're going to get bigger, so keep growing and growing and growing. And then obviously the markets shifted and changed and COVID happened and no one

14:00 could have predicted this global pandemic and then we had some shifts and change and then the US never actually opened and so there's all this like stop start stop start that our industry and our world has gone through since the 2017, 2018 days, early Colorado days, you know, everyone talks about the good old days in Colorado, California, right? So, like we had those rush how much a pound used to sell for. Like we have

14:19 those numbers. Someone said that to me yesterday, like we used to get this for a pound. Like we still talk about the good old days, right? And so when it comes to talent, what we saw is that all these companies hired big and then let everyone get go and it was like this weird compression, especially in the Canadian market, that's figuring itself out now many years later, but we're still seeing now the industry re-correct

14:39 into a startup industry where we're building small, lean, nimble, specialized teams and then building it strategically role by role. And so we're not seeing we're seeing those lessons that the billions wasted, the billions spent now being integrated into new operators where they're being much more fiscally responsible, sometimes because

14:58 they have to be because there's less financial inflow because of all the challenges from that first investment group that came through, but there's also this idea that like we are a startup industry and your marketing team shouldn't be 30 or 40 people initially doing every small role. It's like they should have marketing team and then build in the specialized role or bring

15:16 in an agency or bring in a fractional. And so we're seeing this evolution, but we did see that challenge when companies grow too fast. And then the other thing and I hope that I hold compassion for in our industry and I talked about again this earlier on today with the executive I spoke to was because of the inconsistency in the market and the constant regulatory shifts especially in

15:35 sort of the US market in the US states. You know, there's a lot of companies that they didn't they didn't they you know, they were planning for something that was supposed to happen or that was happening and then it changed and then suddenly you know, this person was talking about vapes in one of the states and how vapes were allowed and vapes were not allowed and so their whole strategy around vapes and

15:54 their whole team and their whole facility suddenly closed. And that was out of their control. They didn't when they hired all those people for that facility or opened that facility, they weren't like, maybe we'll lose our whole facility in the next 12 to 18 months. So I think there's also a lot of unpredictability that ends up affecting talent, but you know, we're expecting CEOs and CHROs and people

16:14 planning to have this like crystal ball and hindsight's always 20/20, but a lot of these strategy and people and talent decisions are being made in the present state with the hope that we're going in one direction and unfortunately sometimes we're often going in different directions without us or the operators choosing that that choice.

16:32 Okay. Okay, that is quite interesting. But now okay, so speaking of talent, since you do work internationally, you you work across different countries and markets. Let's let's go a little bit on the skill side. Which cannabis skills transfer well internationally and which positions

16:50 require someone who truly understands the local market regulations and culture? Great question. So yeah, to date we work we worked in 13 countries and five continents and we opened an office in Bogota, which is really exciting. We're seeing a lot of growth in South American markets. I spend my time in half time in

17:10 Europe and we've also been doing some work now in in Thailand and Southeast Asia Um, Europe as well and in North America. So it's really exciting to see the growth around the world. And so, when we look at global the global supply chain and the global markets, what is consistent across every market is cultivation. So, that has been the

17:29 number one type of role that I've specialized in to date across all of my markets, all of my searches. I actually said that to someone earlier today. Like, those plant-touching heads of cultivation, director of cultivation, director of cultivation ops, general manager, group head of cultivation. Those people who really understand the

17:47 plant, that is a globally trans- transferable skill because there often isn't local talent to do that, right? So, like we have a country we work in, Jersey. It's one of the UK Channel Islands, and their government's trying to encourage industry. So, they have been very cannabis-friendly and pro-cannabis, and there are some operators there now, and and more

18:06 operators coming there. But, their government understands that a lot of that talent is not local. And so, when we've done some international searches to bring in some very specialized cultivation talent, they can get work visas and immigration visas very fast because they're considered specialized talent. Um, so all the like a lot of the plant-touching is a our number one type

18:25 of request and the number type of international role I've done. Um, and anyone wanting to go international pretty much needs to understand GACP, GMP. Although, post-harvest is GMP, but a cultivator needs to understand what that means, and needs to have interacted with quality assurance, QAP, QA AQA PRPQ,

18:43 all the different things that are talked about that. always a a a translational um, knowledge skill that we need to have if we're going to move into a new market. Um, the other thing that we've seen translate across markets is sales. So, um, although there's certain types of sales that are very regionally specific. So, we are helping a lot of um, North

19:02 American and Canadian companies hire their European sales people. Um, we've also done some US-based sales people for European companies. And so, looking at people with that local um, um knowledge, but that overall broader um understanding of the global supply chain, right? So, both of those parts

19:21 are needed. But, with sales specifically, which is the top I would say top three type of role, um that regional nuance, those regional relationships, those local relationships are important. And then, depending on if you're doing like a brand, if you're a brand representative within a state, that reputation, how you present yourself, the you know, the retail

19:40 stores you know, the dispensaries you know, um are really going to be important and specialized. And then, if you're going broader or you're working on more of the B2B side of things, understanding more of the globalization can be supportive or national. So, sales itself can be translated across borders and also is something someone can

19:58 really, really good at within their own state or region. Um and then, other roles that we see be translated is technical skills. So, like R&D, product development, um you know, we do see different form factors happening around the world where the flower is still the predominant way that the rest of the world um consumes medical outside of North America. And

20:18 so, individuals, we've done some head of product, head of R&D with with people that have known very specific products and then can translate that into some of the newer markets. So, that's been really interesting. Um and then, ultimately, some of the fundamental global uh global best practices, like for a fractional CFO or a CFO or finance, you

20:38 know, those are based on finance principles, not cannabis finance principles. Cannabis is is is the knowledge space that we see be translatable, but that's something that can go global because it's all basically the fundamentals of of finance. Um and then, there's nuances of regional taxes or regional um you know, competition and

20:57 all of that. So, there's this this dance that we do. Ultimately, we play in this game of global immigration. So, no matter how awesome you are and you want to go into a new cannabis market, you have to still play the game of immigration, right? So, ultimately, the cannabis industry still has to respect that. You know, visas are hard to get.

21:15 There's open and closing of various immigration policies right now with where the world's at. In the US, cannabis is federally illegal. Well, immigration is done at the federal level. Now, there's some challenges right now with the borders with some of the cannabis people over the years. It's very common um story where executives have had some challenges. So, it's it's constantly

21:34 evolving in terms of where people can go. The one conversation I do say often to people though is if you work in the retail side of the industry and adult use, it's all predominantly in North America. Um and so that and that's sort of what we see for the next indefinite time. I would say 5-plus years until we

21:52 see any sort of adult use framework outside of North America um in say Europe. Um and so, anyone who comes from retail background, you know, staying more regional national is going to be just a realistic expectation. But now, I'm pretty sure that I know the answer to this question, but still I'd

22:11 like to ask you. Maybe I'm wrong. Is it getting harder or easier when it comes to those migrations and and switches from country to country and and continent to continent? How's Is it What's the What's the status with that right now? I just think there's a lot of So, that's a good question. So, I'm going to talk about it specifically in cannabis talent cuz obviously, there's political

22:30 conversations we can have that, you know, neither of us could probably want to or want to waste our time on that. Um but I think in cannabis, it's actually becoming harder. And the reason why is because we're getting more specialized talent within the country itself. So, 5 years ago, 6 years ago when I was doing my first European searches, we were

22:49 bringing Canadian heads of cultivation and master growers and head growers into the European market because there wasn't that many growers who had been in Europe and had the experience and worked in GMP facilities under GACP principles. And so, we were bringing in international talent. But now, there's a

23:08 lot more people who are from the European region who have experience cuz the industry's been there for, you know, 5 plus years in some of these places. Um and so, those individuals now can be brought in with from local, you know, local experience. Um and that doesn't take immigration and visa costs and

23:28 risks and all of that, right? Cuz a relocation is a high-risk investment for a company. Uh I had a CEO talk to me notoriously about that. Um we placed somebody in a in a global role and um the person was there and everything was going well with the person, their performance, but

23:47 I heard her that there was um their family wasn't necessarily adjusting to where they were living, and that was also putting a lot of pressure on the individual, and then ultimately that got back to the executive team, and then the executive called me to talk about it, and like their leadership team, and you know, they come from big business,

24:05 non-cannabis, and they were like, "That is a big risk anytime we do a relocation is that the family might not integrate." And so, there's these considerations that companies have to think about. And And again, there's global moves happening all the time in big corporations, small corporations, but when margins are thin and it does cost tens of thousands of dollars to relocate

24:23 someone into a new region, especially if there's visa stuff, especially if there's now new um you know, immigration papers we have to get and all of that, there's a huge risk that the company's taking on and the candidates as well, and the individuals taking the job, but there seems to be less appetite for that risk if there's a more

24:41 global a a more of a regional talent pool, even if they might not be as great as the international one. So, that is a trend that I've definitely seen for a little bit where there is more of an an a domestic talent pool, and that's where companies are preferring to find their people. And so that's from a perspective of the

25:01 the let's say the candidates that are uh getting hired. But if if we look at the cannabis industry, cannabis likes to describe itself as a community-driven industry. Were or actually a better question is are there gaps? And if there are gaps, where are the biggest gaps between the

25:19 culture companies advertise and the culture candidates actually enter? That's a really good question. So again, we're in a startup industry, right? So everyone is new. Everyone's figuring it out. You know, companies are trying to do what they can to get revenue, right? Ultimately, a job company's job is to

25:37 make revenue. That's what a company is, right? Uh it gets revenue and profits and survives. You know, there's deeper business structure in there. I'm not the MBA person to go through it, but um you know, there's this idea that like that is the purpose of a business. And so when they're starting out, they're just trying to make revenue. They're just trying to survive. They're just trying to keep their feet under the water and and not you know, not go under the water. And so some of this stuff is nice

25:56 to have, but if you can't even figure out how you're going to have your lights on in 6 months, then defining a perfect corporate culture strategy, alignment, motto that's followed in every department, and every person, like that will come. But that's not the main priority in the beginning. And or there's other so many other priorities.

26:15 And so I think companies do what they can to understand what their culture is, but ultimately, it's still a business and it's still going to do what it can to survive and it's still going to have phases of growth. And so we've all all like a lot of people on this call have worked, you know, I did. I worked for

26:33 government. Big. About tens of thousands of people work for the government. And I had a woman who I worked for, a boss that I worked for. I And that person was not like it was a very toxic environment. And years later, I was talk I had a wedding, actually. And I talked to somebody and someone was

26:51 telling a story at a table and I was like, sounds like the person I worked for. And it ended up being the same person. And that was in the government, like the structure, the federal government, which has been around forever. And so there's still challenges in culture and toxicity and management in in big structure, but we get mad that

27:09 the cannabis industry has it and the cannabis industry is only, you know, yeah, we're still in our infancy. So it's responsibility of every person, I think ultimately, every manager, every leader, every executive, every operator, every employee, how do you want to be at work? How do you want to treat people? What ethics, what values, what energy,

27:30 what do you want to create around you? And all of us taking self-responsibility, while the corporations are also taking responsibility at the level with where they're at, but ultimately letting that trickle down and ultimately all of us having empowerment to be the best selves in the industry. Cuz a lot of the toxicity I hear about, cuz I hear a lot

27:48 of stories, I have a lot of secrets, is not necessarily from the top. And it's from an individual making a choice. And that's not a reflection of the company, that's a reflection of the individual within the company. And sometimes there's companies where a few of those individuals find each other and they do things that are not so great and and sketchy and not as ethic, but often

28:06 it's like one or two, you know, bad eggs or rotten apples, whatever they say. And so I think ultimately, you know, the culture that we describe of companies should be better defined. And I I appreciate when companies make some effort around that and hire against metrics and all of that, but we'll get there. And ultimately, like we still

28:26 have business culture to follow. Like cannabis is still a business and there's some amazing hearts and minds and passions industry and visionaries for what the future could be and we're getting there. We still have to go through the process of business to get there. And so ultimately

28:46 that idea that every company can just be so deeply cultured like is lovely, but where does it start with? The individual and collectively and then when someone's doing a job search, it's how do you find those companies that align with your values and those that are having a North Star that you want because it's ultimately too about that match between, you know, what we can

29:05 deliver, who we are, and then what somebody wants and what aligns for them. And I want to I want to very quickly ask you about this because this is something that is extremely interesting to me. And when you say culture, obviously, we know what culture is. We we know what defines a culture of a nation, of a country.

29:24 What does culture mean to you? What does culture mean in business? Can you tell me a little bit more? Ooh, I don't know if I'm going to get some roasted for this one cuz I, you know, I I think it's understanding the sort of values, missions, and model that a company uses to guide itself forward and how it both

29:44 internally treats its people, how it externally treats its clients and customers and partners and vendors, and then ultimately how they deliver what they serve to whatever market they're they're serving. So, um when we look at sort of like the model

30:03 on the ma- on the wall or like here are six core principles or here's what we belong to or how we're different from someone else. Um if that's really well defined and that can define the culture. And then ultimately, I think business can't have one specific culture. There's a whole bunch of microcultures, right? If I even think across the cannabis industry, yes, you can have a company that's culture, but how they how the

30:22 retail store acts versus the cultivation store or or both cultivation department versus the quality department versus the R&D science department versus the executive department versus sales department. There's different subcultures. And based on who your manager is and what market you're in and what you're doing, there's going to be another subculture in there, right? So,

30:40 it's all these little microcosms that create this giant ethos, which should be followed under, you know, these core values. But, ultimately, it comes down to sort of the the evolution in the way that that we all come together. And so, when companies in cannabis are trying to define culture itself, you

30:58 know, we can look at cannabis culture. I just saw a post on this today. Someone was like, "Hey." And I talked about this yesterday with someone. Everyone's like, "Well, cannabis culture." Well, what is cannabis culture? Because there are so many things under cannabis culture depending on who you are. And there is one way that we can think about it. Uh and there's the legacy and sort of the

31:16 OG and where we came from. But, like, there's also there's also patients in that. So, were the patients the OGs or was it the growers? Was it the people building the products? Or was it the people out there getting and growing for the patients they had or the patient receiving the product, right? Like, there's just so many ways we can look at what the culture is. And so, cannabis

31:35 tries to lump itself under cannabis culture and then get mad. And so, there's so many subcultures within that. And so, same thing within a business. We're going to have different types of organizations, different types of subcultures. And ultimately, you'd hope you'd have an ownership uh leadership group that would have a common vision, a common defined idea of this is how we're going to do things, this is how we're going to show up every

31:54 day, this is how we're going to move and navigate through this world. And hopefully, that trickles down, you know, into those those sort of small subgroups and then also be redefined, you know, up. But, that's a good point. I like what you said there about the cannabis culture where you've asked the question of uh and what about the patients?

32:14 That's That's all of a sudden now something completely different from what you would expect one to understand the cannabis culture mean. So, it is it is a very, very good point. And uh So, through Emerald Lane, you've built both a business and a global professional community, right? We can We can We can name it that way.

32:34 How much of a career growth in cannabis is based on competence and how much depends on being visible, trusted, and connected to the right people or is it a combination? What's What do you see? What What is your perspective? Yeah, it's another great question. So, I actually have a post that I'm going to

32:52 be putting out that I was sort of riffing through about that because I think I'm seeing sort of the desire around talent change from an internal perspective from companies where previously it was more about and it still is but it was before before but more about talent. So, I was talking

33:11 about heads of cultivation. So, it's a sneak peek on this post. So, before a head of cultivation, you know, if I think of 6 years ago or 8 years ago when I was starting to recruiting in the space or my 7th years, you know, if we needed a head of cultivation, it was who's actually grown cannabis before. It might be some legacy experience, might be some ACMPR or MMAR or some of the early Canadian medical

33:30 space or early American medical access but ultimately it was like who can grow cannabis and get that person into a job. Now, when I'm working on these heads of cultivation roles, the often talent profile or the candidate profile I'm looking at is somebody who's understood cannabis cultivation, who's worked in a facility that's reputable

33:49 and and legal and licensed and operational and has also built a broader understanding of business, professionalizing, of leadership, of operations. So, we're looking at someone who's more well-rounded and some of that has been gained on the ground and some of that will need to be gained

34:08 externally, right? If you've never taken a course on lean or six sigma, you know, or or you can take that on the side, right? But we're looking at candidates who have more of a mixed profile or more of a diverse background. And so, those people early on who built a bit of reputation for themselves but didn't necessarily have the experience to back

34:28 it up, I think companies are starting to look between the lines now and being like what have you actually actually achieved and not just a personality?" But at the same time, when we look at people who are in the market, we're looking at who they know. And so, you know, I tell everyone looking for a job in 2026 in cannabis, it's like, "Get really good at something, right? You

34:46 probably already really good at something. You have a zone of genius. You have something you've done again and again and again." For us, it's recruiting again and again and again and again. Right? Are you cultivation? Are you operations? Are you sales? Are you marketing? Are you QPs? Are you, you know, dispensaries? Are you medical? Like, whatever you've done, do it and just do it really well. And then also, as you go, be a good

35:04 human. Goes back to the culture side of it. Leave a good reputation for yourself. Recognize that every time you make a choice, that choice will come with you. And in this little industry with really big ears, everybody knows everybody. And so, or somebody knows somebody. And so, if you choose to not act in integrity, if you choose to not

35:24 use a cultural North Star that you would be proud of or that you think would be desirable by others or whatever language you want to use, that will likely go with you. And so, ultimately, that network matters. Your word of mouth matters. But that now more and more comes down to be a good person and doing

35:43 a really good job at the thing you're telling everybody you do a good job at. And so, it's like this really interesting space. And then when we look at getting better at your job and where we want to go, I think right now it's complementing the opposite side of what you have or know. So, we have this constant debate

36:01 in the industry between roots and suits. Roots and suits. Legacy, the, you know, the chads, the legacy, the the people who don't know cannabis and people who've been in cannabis forever. And this is constant debate. It's constant debate, you know, constant infighting in the market. And what I'm seeing now with the talent profiles we want, the people

36:19 who are really excelling in this industry, the type of profile that our clients are really excited about are the people that have both or can speak both languages, right? And likely you come from one side or the other. But how do you balance yourself with learning? So if you are someone who is a root and you have known the plant forever, actually

36:37 talked about the time we're like, "Yeah, I'm a third generation grower and I've been this like super cool, like amazing." But maybe you have a gap in some of the more suit side of the industry. Maybe you've never taken a course on organizational leadership or leadership training or organizational best practices, again, like Lean Six

36:55 Sigma. Maybe taken a GACP, which is good agricultural and collection practices. Don't butcher me if that's off there. Or GMP, right? Maybe you take a course or study or maybe you ask for your employer to help you find some additional skills and that's how you balance that. Maybe you take a course on budgeting or P&L

37:14 management or something you just don't really know and that will then come with you and balance it out. Then the other side of it is if we have the suits people who are coming from CPG or pharma or agriculture and you know your thing very, very well and you're excited to come into the cannabis industry. How do you gain additional knowledge about the

37:33 plant? How do you gain Maybe you're going to dispensaries and you're learning about all the different brands and talking to budtenders once or twice a week just to kind of get to know people. Maybe you are asking if you can go into the cultivation the grow once a month to be on the ground if you're a salesperson and you're trying to understand what's happening there. Maybe you're going and taking like the Ganjier program or taking something

37:52 where you're really learning about the plant or sommelier you know, cannabis sommelier program or going to one of the conferences on on your own or again, the company's sending you and you're starting to get to know people and start to get to know and ask and learn and show up with that willingness to have that knowledge and then you combine all of it, right? So I think those are the people that are going to do really well

38:10 and that comes from that desire to be a part of the industry. It comes from the desire to build your network and build your reputation and build what you know you can do Um, while also looking at how you stay your like with the longevity and sort of forward thinking of of where the industry is growing to. Got it. So, I I feel like I heard a lot

38:29 of you have to be aware of yourself, you have to be objective about yourself in order to be able to be seen and appreciated quality matter. Um, one last question that I have for you and this is on my mind because as someone who's working B2B as well quite

38:48 quite a lot, I'm quite interested. Is there a disconnect within companies or execs in understanding um, the value over quality or quality over value when it comes to individuals that

39:06 they're going to be hiring. What I'm trying to specifically ask you is this guy is going to be more expensive, but he's got a a crazy experience behind him. This other guy has a little bit less experience, a lot cheaper. Where are you going to go? Is that something that you're noticing and how do you

39:25 handle that in in your business? Yeah, it's hard to make a broad paint across the entire industry and every type of company because there's different levels of executives and different size of companies. Ultimately, some companies have very tight budgets. The whole industry is under financial constraint, so we can't see paying anyone anything they want, right?

39:44 There's there's P&L there, there's budgets, there's projections, there's planning, so you know, when our clients come to us, often they have a set salary range and that's just based on their numbers and their operational budgets and how they're going to run their company. And so, if we have a $60,000 a year job and someone wants 120, it's just not the right role for that person,

40:04 right? And vice both sides of the the conversation. And I have lots of conversations about that and it's probably a whole 'nother day. Um, but ultimately, we do our job and I think all consultants' jobs is to reflect back from to our clients what we're hearing from the market. So, one of the things that we do is if a client tells us a salary

40:24 range and we feel like that might not be the best aligned for the market, we will tell them when we can. You know, "Hey, we placed a recent role. We were $10,000 more than that. Would you have flexibility?" You know, we kind of talk to them. They ultimately tell us what they want us to go to market with and we do. And then part of our job of being in the market is to listen to what

40:42 we're hearing. And we had this recently with a a search we were doing in one of the markets and we were hearing constantly from people from candidates or potential candidates that we're headhunting, "Oh, I want $15,000 more. I want $10,000. I'm already making $10,000 more. I'm making $15,000 more." So, we were able to take enough of that data

41:01 and go back to the client and say, "Hey, you gave us this range. We've you know, found a couple of people, but if you really want some really good talent that we think is the right level that what you need, here is what they're telling us they're making from your competitors. Here's we're hearing is competitive in your market. Do you have flexibility here?" And if you don't have flexibility, well, then

41:20 you can expect that even if you bring a person in junior, they're going to work 6 months, they're going to get a knock on the door from one of the other companies, you're going to headhunt it out. So, maybe it's worth kind of considering a little higher. Or again, if you don't want to, just know that the talent's going to be a little bit shifted. Maybe we're going a little more junior with the person. Maybe we have one less year of experience and we're looking for someone who's stepping into

41:38 that role from a more junior position. So, we do a little bit of finessing with our clients. Um, but ultimately, you know, people can identify good talent and I've also seen creative not creative, but we are seeing continuous evolution of compensation in cannabis and where we have, you know, base

41:56 structure and commitments on both sides, base compensation and base salary, annual salaries, etc. And then we're also seeing performance-based bonuses um, and measurable bonuses that are paid out often more often like quarterly or even monthly across almost all type of role. So, even our most junior quality

42:15 assurance roles we've done recently have a bonus compensation part of their job. And that allows them to then know that they can perform and they can show up and the company, you know, will be committed to to to to providing that if they can based on profitability and where the company's at, but the person

42:33 has that ability to kind of have a little extra on top of what they make. And so, I think there is sort of that balance we're seeing between performance-based and base salary. Um and companies are a little hesitant sometimes to give a high high base until they see performance, but that's where we see these bonuses especially down milestone quarterly monthly payouts that

42:51 allow both sides to come to the table and say, "Hey, if you perform, here's how we're going to do it." And ultimately that comes down to contracts and what's said in in you know, making sure it's all in writing and there's ways that we coach our our clients and our candidates through that. But I think companies are willing to pay for good talent, but the good talent also needs to perform for that pay. And it becomes

43:09 both ways. That makes sense. And uh that it's a very good way of sort of um piggybacking on both sides and trying to figure out what's the best solution, which obviously at the end of the day is uh the most practical. Uh Stephanie,

43:27 thank you very much for sharing your knowledge with me today and with everyone's going to be watching this podcast. Um where can people find you on socials? Yeah, well, thank you so much. I feel like there's so many things we could have kept going down the rabbit hole with, so maybe for the next conversation, but um yeah, in terms of

43:45 finding us online, um you know, I'm on LinkedIn a lot, so Stephanie Pow is my LinkedIn handle. Uh I'm going to be getting my content back up there and running. I uh I just got a little busy with this little startup that could, but here we are. Uh and so, I'll be getting more back on that. Um I also attend a lot of conferences. I'm all you know,

44:04 all over the world. So, if you're at any sort of conference, I tend to announce where I'll be or I'm doing some speaking events, so you can definitely get in touch with me there. Um our company website is emeraldlanerecruitment.com. Um that provides a little more insight into ourselves, our recruitment, our executive search, as our and our fractional um talent acquisition services that we offer. And also will

44:23 just kind of provide some context about who we are and what we do. Um and ultimately emeraldlanerecruitment is also on LinkedIn. So, if you follow the page, you'll get to see about the new exciting job posts we're on. And that's really where you can find me. That's amazing. Thank you so much. And I feel like yes, we do have a lot more that we can discuss, but let's let's save it for maybe another time because I

44:42 feel like this is going to be uh we're going to have a little bit of repetition sometimes in the future, for sure. You are a true uh pot of gold when it comes to knowledge in this specific area. And I feel like it is great for people to understand uh a lot better how recruitment works

45:00 across the world. Um so, thank you for that. And I'm really looking forward to maybe doing another one in the future as well. And again, whoever wants to, they can follow you on socials. And uh I think I think that's it. Really, really appreciate it. Thank you once again. And uh I wish you a very fantastic rest of the day.

45:20 Fantastic. Thank you so much.