Ep 15: AI Doesn't Smoke Weed — The Shift

with Kit Kenney · The Shift, a podcast by Headquarters

Kit Kenney explains why AI-generated cannabis branding misses the mark - and how Minnesota brands can earn trust through authentic design.

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Auto-generated from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability.

0:07 Minnesota is one of the newest adult use cannabis markets in the country. Uh legalization created enormous expectations, but building the actual industry has been a much slower and more complicated process. Businesses are still dealing with licensing delays,

0:26 supply limitations, high prices, and the challenge of understanding what consumers actually want from this development market. And that raises an important question. While everyone is focused on regulations, licenses, and revenue, who

0:44 is paying attention to the customer? And that is exactly why I'm speaking today with Kit Kenney, a Minnesota cannabis sommelier legacy operator and someone who understands the market from both the industry and consumer perspective. So

1:03 Kit, welcome to the shift. Thank you for Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. Okay, so um Kit, let's let's start off very quickly a little bit. I want to I want to get to know uh you a little bit more and I want the

1:21 audience to get to know you a little bit more who who might be watching outside of Minnesota. So tell me about your cannabis experience. How did you end up here? Okay. Also, I'm just going to pre uh preview this by saying that I have ADHD. So if I'm moving around and shifting, which I want to do all the time, I will be cuz that's just who I am as a person.

1:40 So follow along. I use a lot of hand movements. Um, man, how did I even get into the cannabis industry? I guess we will try to make this like a long story short, but I've been using cannabis for a very long time since I was 18 and 38 for the last uh 20 years. And up until the last few years, I never recognized

1:59 that I had been using cannabis to treat my ADHD and get to like a dopamine baseline. Because of ADHD, I have severe symptoms of anxiety and depression. And so I was utilizing cannabis uh at that time to relax my body, calm down, bring

2:17 down my mind, push my thoughts to the back of my head so I can, you know, uh show up for myself every day. And it wasn't until I got diagnosed a couple years ago that I realized, oh wow, I've been using cannabis medically for 20 years and didn't realize it, honestly. So I used to be a salon owner and I had

2:36 my own salon. I was a hair stylist and I I loved it for a very long time. And the reason I loved it is because I like helping people feel better, whatever that is, right? And so retail was a big thing in my salon because I believe that if one product can could help your hair

2:54 look better, feel better, you know, solve a problem that you're having, your life is going to be easier, you're going to be happier, right? And so, uh, long story short, in 2020, I live in Minneapolis. George Floyd was murdered here. And everything kind of came to a head here to me personally, and I was

3:13 like, "Wow, this doing hair is not deep enough for me. I need something where I'm really like touching souls in a much deeper way." And so I was crazy and I just signed a 2-year lease and the pand so and I'm like,

3:33 "Okay, what am I doing? I want to get into cannabis. Um, where do I start?" I had an opportunity through um a personal client of mine who was in the industry. So they let me into my biz cuz I already had a full clientele in the hair industry. And basically 6 months after I had started my business, COVID shut

3:51 down. And so I my salon was shut down for three months. And I'm I'm a business gal and I love hustling um for something that I'm passionate about and care about. And so for those three minutes or 3 minutes 3 months I built cannabis, my underground cannabis dispensary or

4:09 worked on it. Uh went back to four went back to my salon for 4 months when we reopened and I paid off my salon lease and walked away. I was like I can't do this anymore. I want to go all into cannabis and I'm just going to walk away from my career and start over even though the only things I know are the

4:27 words sativa and indica. Like you got to start at the bottom. And I knew that seven years ago in this industry, we weren't legal yet here in Minnesota, but uh I knew that I'd have to start at the bottom and work myself up, work my way up, right? And so it was crazy cuz 13 months after I started cannabis, I closed my salon down to work in the

4:47 legacy industry full-time. So, I've been in the legacy industry for six years, total of seven years in cannabis. And so, I mean, that is maybe the short of of it. Got it. And and this is interesting, but uh what what I want to uh also touch on

5:05 as well. You kind of like mentioned it too is why have you chosen to become such a strong voice for Minnesota consumers? Now this is your this is sort of you know obviously the legacy brand is one thing and sort of that business aspect but why did you decide what sort

5:23 of got you into this is really what I need to speak about? Absolutely. I think one of it one of the things is that someone like myself a a queer woman is not we don't have as many of those people in our industry and vocalizing for us. And so I really wanted to insert myself into a

5:42 maledominated field because we need more people like me to be loud about what the consumers want and looking for. So I consider myself a bridge between our consumers and our growers and farmers because I'm spending the time and you

6:00 know emotional time with my clients understanding why people why people need cannabis. That's that's perfect. And obviously you and I re spoke previously and one of the things that we sort of kind of discussed as well was obviously that sort of I don't maybe like a disappointment

6:19 generally speaking. So from that consumer focused perspective where has the industry disappointed you the most when it comes to um how cannabis functions in Minnesota and uh obviously across Minnesota and over Minnesota as well. For me personally,

6:37 the industry has disappointed myself and the consumers on the consumer end of things. So that comes with uh education. I think there is a lot of ego that needs to be dropped because at the end of the day, this is a business. This is not our personal emotions. We need to put on our business hat instead of our like

6:55 personal emotional hat. And remember that even though yes we are all passionate about it and that is the why behind we you know this is the why why we do this we still need to remember that we need to be professional and run things in a way that are set up for the consumers. So I would say the biggest

7:13 disappointment right now for me personally in Minnesota is that the consumers are asking for functional lower dose or different types of products that not that are not out there currently. And so something that I believe is that our industry in Minnesota is not delivering as a whole

7:33 in that aspect. Can you break it down a little bit? This is very interesting and this is important because listening to this podcast is definitely going to want to learn from you as someone who's really in touch with reality and with the consumers. So, can you break it up a little bit? What what does this mean

7:52 specifically? Um, you know, you spent a lot of time listening to consumers. So what is what is this that sets Minnesota cannabis consumer apart from those in more established markets and what are they asking for that brands are still aren't that brands are still not delivering you did touch on that can you

8:11 yeah I will get I will definitely get into it I think the biggest thing is like how we are changing in just the industry is that we are working in a wellness and medicinal space right so consumers want to combine their daily rituals with real problem solving and often times there aren't products made

8:30 to address that. So, some of the feedback I've been getting over and over and over again is that weed is too strong and people are asking for type twos or type 3es to combine with their cannabis. So, in the industry, people are only making a type one. And if you don't know what that is, a type one is

8:48 high THC, low CBD. A type two is some CBD, some THC, a type three is just CBD. Right? So, I'm continuously asked for joints that are type two or part CBD, part THC, so people can utilize these all day long, but not have to be like so blasted. It's more of just like a light

9:07 buzz or a light hum, you know, where it's like, okay, I just want like, you know, a light pressed down on my body. I don't need to be like blasted back. And I'm not saying this is all consumers, right? There is a need for all products. I just believe that the market, the cannabis industry, and the niche that we are missing on is more of that

9:25 functional every single day all day long type of products. So, one of the other products I would absolutely love to see that I haven't seen anywhere are teeny tiny mini gummies. I think somebody should make teeny tiny mini gummy gummy cubes that are like one or

9:44 two milligrams. We can sell up to 200 uh milligrams here. And so it's like you could sell somebody 100 mini gummy cubes, right, at 2 milligrams each. First of all, they're cute. It's a it's a tiny gummy versus like a mint or a large gummy and you're getting it's like vitamins, right? You don't just get, you

10:02 know, 30 and you're done. You're like, "Okay, this is my 90 supply and then I'm going to reorder." And so figuring out how to service, you know, our community in those smaller smaller little niches, I think is really important because I do believe that high people who are consuming a lot would still possibly utilize products like that, especially

10:20 if you're trying to cut down or something. Got it. Got it. No, that makes complete sense. Also, now that I think about it, that really would be awesome if there's like a, as you said, like like vitamins. Literally, that would that would pretty much be it. Um, now, so obviously as Minnesota is kind of a younger market,

10:39 let's let's say that way. That's a nice way of saying it. Nice way of saying it. Uh, if you were if you were advising a brand, right, entering the Minnesota market and what what sort of mistakes would you tell them to avoid? And when it comes to

10:57 marketing and brand awareness, what opportunities are businesses overlooking in this particular market? Okay. So, are you asking me which question would you like me to answer first here? Let's go first with the with the question about brand comes into the Minnesota market and then we can sort of

11:15 dive into the uh marketing side. Absolutely. Okay. Into the marketing side of things. So I really only work on the front end of the industry right now. And so branding is a big part to me. But I do what I do see what is missing right now is diversity within your workforce.

11:34 And so if you are working with all people that look like you, how can you have other opinions? How can you have other experiences to integrate into your business? We know because of many studies that the more diverse your company is, the higher grossing, the

11:52 better off your company is. And so I think one of the big things here is missing the diversity part and hiring people that might not be even in the industry but want to get in and giving people an opportunity to get into the industry. I think we so many people are pushing like no, if you're not in the industry, you can't come in here. And

12:11 it's like, whoa, we could really value this person who was a manager at McDonald's because they showed up for work every time. They know how to you, you know, talk to people. They know how to deal with mistakes. And so, I think one of the biggest uh mistakes that businesses are making are, you know, not

12:30 seeing the bigger picture and allowing more people to come into our industry. Got it. No, that people are going to see things from a different perspective, right? like I don't know all everything, you know, and someone who's got a different perspective, who's never been in the cannabis industry is going to see things from a different point of view. Doesn't mean they're right or wrong. It just

12:49 gives you more to work on. No, it's just logical. I mean, if you have, let's say, 10 people that are exactly the same, there's no conflict. And conflict is needed in order for you to evolve. Obviously, notice mistakes. People don't really like the same things. So why don't we have different approaches, different mindsets,

13:08 different perspectives as you said so that we can actually acquire the conflict which is going to take us to oh I if everyone likes the same idea then what are you testing like there's no test like what are you doing what are you doing um pretty much and and um now going to the

13:28 um the marketing side which is um specifically when it comes to marketing and brand awareness I wanted to talk about that So, what opportunities are businesses overlooking in this particular market? If you can be like obviously I'd like to see if you can be a little bit more specific on what you've noticed. Yes, absolutely. So, I would say that

13:47 there's a couple of things. One of the biggest things is overutilizing AI. Consumers can spot that. That kind of can feel like really messy branding. So something that I noticed a lot is that a lot of advertising, posters, even packaging is way too crowded. And so it

14:07 is hard for consumers to read, figure out information. Our brains are so overloaded every single day with so much information that it's like I need as little information as possible to get to get through to the consumer. So I'm always like, okay, in what ways can we make this easier to read? in what ways

14:26 can we make this more functional for a consumer? So, I just feel like the AI is so obvious and feels disingenuous and it's like we're creating products for consumers, not your niche friend group. And I think that's something a lot of people uh can forget here uh as well.

14:45 The other thing with branding that I believe needs to happen more is utilizing joy and fun. We are not joy maxing enough in the industry. Uh that is like what like the fun factor is very undervalued here and that is what cannabis is for me. That is my life

15:05 prerogative is to enjoy life and have fun. And so like how can we add in a fun factor uh so we can show up to the community. Maybe that's hosting an event. Maybe that is the way you show up online and you really engage or you with consumers or maybe you have some funny

15:25 videos that show the more humorous realistic side of things that also I feel like shows vulnerability as well. So, I would say the biggest mistakes companies are making are not utilizing local artists to make their branding and

15:43 uh not incorporating more experiences into their products and dispensaries. Got it. And it it seems like a like like you're sloppy. Like if you're doing AI constantly and you're really overlooking and completely ignoring, as you said,

16:01 local designers, it feels like you're sloppy. You did it seems like you didn't invest a lot of time in it which sort of gets me to a picture about you which is like if you didn't really invested a lot of time in this aspect which is very important again marketing and branding what can I expect from you in other

16:20 aspects of the business right I mean a million% and that is what I'm seeing here in the Minnesota market is that branding is kind of a lastm minute thought a lastm minute ditch effort if you are going to start a brand you need a brand kit built out by a person, not AI, because AI does not smoke weed. I

16:39 think that's the like what we really need to remember is that AI does not consume cannabis, so why would they be able to make the posters for the consumers that do? I mean, obviously they do. Obviously, some people can't afford to hire someone, but that's why we have the trade and barter system. Do you know how many artists are out there

16:58 wanting to trade for products, weed, cannabis, gummies? It's like you'd have a million people like I'll do it for you. You know, you're utilizing your community and then you can showcase an artist. Yeah. And this is the very good point that you brought up there is that AI

17:16 doesn't smoke cannabis, which ultimately because like at the very end of the day, AI is an intelligence thingy, right? Where based on the past. B based on the past and again it's not based on human emotions. What is cannabis used for mostly? It's for your

17:36 emotions. That's the reason. So it really counteract and it counterdictates what the whole AI versus cannabis situation is. So that really makes sense. and and you again since since you've um you you have your own legacy brand, I

17:56 wanted to also talk a little bit about this. So um legacy operators helped build cannabis culture and played an important role in getting the industry to legalization. Right. Absolutely. But their contribution is often overlooked. Now this is again a perfect

18:15 question for you because as someone who has built a legacy brand, how do you grow within the legal market without losing the authenticity, the personality and consumer trust that made people support you in the first place? Absolutely. So the first thing to not losing the consumer trust is to learn

18:35 how to listen actively to what the consumers are saying. you're not just hearing the words, you're able to repeat back to them, I need this because I want to feel this way. Uh, and so by being really honest with yourself and actually listening to what people are wanting and needing is going to be the first step to

18:53 keeping your brand authentic um, and honest. I believe in radical candor. So, being very upfront, but being kind at the same time. Something we have here in Minnesota is called Minnesota nice, which has kind of always been a little h but I do feel like after everything that

19:11 we've gone through this last year, I mean with Alex Prey being murdered Renee good, it's like Minnesota nice actually is the best and uh and so I do believe that you know hard work listening to the consumers being honest with the consumers when you mess up when you you know up when you make a mistake you know

19:31 you're I'm hon on, you know, be honest. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm going to trust someone who says, "Hey, we packaged this wrong or we said something wrong and we meant this and we were corrected and now we're relearning and we're so sorry we gave you this information. Please allow us to learn

19:50 alongside with you." Yeah. And so I just think that, you know, that is a crucial part. And being able to pivot on a dime is the other thing in the industry that if you can't do that, it's going to be really tough to grow in the ind in the recreational side because things are constantly changing. We're in a new

20:08 industry where we've never done things before. So, we are all making it up as we go. You just have to be like gentle on yourself, too, and understand that like we're messy, too, and we're going to make mistakes and it's normal. We're humans. People make mistakes. If you're not reporting on those mistakes, you don't seem

20:27 genuine, you know. Absolutely. Yeah, that that is uh I agree with that 100%. So, let's let's do a little bit of an experiment. I want to see how how this will work. Let's say you're uh your only responsibility for the next five years was to strengthen the relationship

20:46 between cannabis business and consumers. What would you change first? I would probably change the way that there is real brand accountability within communicating with your consumers. And so it feels like a lot of

21:04 the time our industry has spent a lot of time like convincing people to sell weed, but then we aren't teaching them like how to utilize it and put it into our daily functional spot or like our daily functional uses here. And so it's like we need to be radically honest

21:22 about cannabis and what the products do and being more honest about, hey, this is not for everyone. I think often times we're like, cannabis, anyone can use it. We're going to find a product for you. Like this gummy might not be right for this person. This joint might not be right for this person. At the end of the day, cannabis just might not be right

21:40 for you, even if you've tried it a bunch of times. So, don't force this idea on consumers that they have to be utilizing the products you're utilizing. It's really just teaching them responsibly and listening to their bodies. Like, cannabis is all about emotional education. And once you can learn how to listen to, oh, these are my needs. This

22:00 is how I am feeling, then we can kind of negotiate, okay, what product is going to best suit you? And maybe there isn't a product that's going to best suit you. And I know that kind of feels like a disappointment, but at the end of the day, it's honesty, and I'd rather have someone be honest with me. Got it.

22:18 H how important are safe spaces and community and word of mouth? It versus just social media like how important is that? Yeah, absolutely. That's I think one of the best questions. Uh over the last seven years, the feedback I have gotten from

22:37 almost every single one of my consumers that has gone to a rec dispensary anywhere in the United States is I walked in and I felt dumb and I wasn't help properly and I was very overwhelmed. Uh like what can we do about that?

22:55 Um what is when they feel dumb? Why why why did they feel dumb? Right? That's a great question because our industry has been doing a disservice to our consumers the entire time. We have been built on legacy growers and legacy dealers who have just sold weed, not educated their clients, not research. They're just doing it for the

23:14 money. That's not everyone, but it is a lot of people. And I've seen a lot of harm done by people in the industry. And so that's why I got into it. I had someone who was sexually harassing me that I was buying cannabis from. And I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. So, I'm going to start a business for

23:33 someone like me, someone who needs a safe space to show up, someone who's not going to be harassed by the person that I'm getting it from, someone who's going to be carrying farm-to-table fresh products that knows every hand that your products are touching. So, safe spaces are important. Um, and we know that it's if you feel seen, that's what it's all

23:52 about. And that's why I'm in this industry, Filip, is like I'm here to make people feel seen and heard. Cannabis just kind of comes like next. I know it doesn't it's not even the first thing that I talk about with consumers. It's more so like, hey, where are you at? How are you doing? What's going on in your life? How can I be of help to you? Oh, you want to talk about your dog

24:11 that just died for five minutes? I'm here for it. We can smoke about it later. And that's why I feel like your followers and the people that you're working with appreciate that about you is you know what what this what you're saying is literally the opposite of the

24:29 recipe for success. But somehow you are successful even though don't follow this recipe for success. You are successful and your people cherish that. So absolutely you are a very good example of yes you can do this stuff and still be successful. So

24:48 right you can sorry to interrupt. I'm like you can be kind and create safe spaces and have a really successful business. They don't have to be separate. Like trust is not built by THC percentages. It has been built when customers consistently feel you know seen, heard, understand, engaged. And if

25:07 we can do that the sales will take care of themselves. If you can educate your consumer and make them feel good, boom, you're selling product at the end of the day. I don't even think you have to have the best product. If you have a space that makes people feel welcome, it makes a big difference. Yeah. You're very passionate about cannabis

25:26 and that's Can you tell? That's something that I cheated sometimes like with my friends, you know, but in the best way because I'm like so excited. And we just have an industry that needs to be more curious. At the end of the day, be more curious. Literally unlearn everything you've learned about cannabis and start over.

25:45 Like not over, but just being like there are other ways to address this industry head on. And it's not just in corporate ways. It's about being a freaking human. Yeah. And that's like direct feedback. I'm getting from consumers, you know, it's like I can't tell you how many people have said, "Thank you for creating a

26:04 space for me." And I'm like, "You're welcome. I created it for me, you know, and that therefore I created it for you." So, as I work on my mental health and I work on my soul care, I'm able to help other people with soul care as well. And it's so exciting. We just all want to heal. We all just want to feel better. Yeah. And we deserve that.

26:22 You're going to be a very big refresher for my podcast. Thank you. I'm very excited. I would definitely say I'm a breath of fresh uh air and you know I'm vulnerable. I'm messy and I used to not always be like this. I had a huge shield on the first 3 four years I sold cannabis cuz I was had

26:40 the worst imposttor syndrome. I didn't think I was good enough. I had every guy around me who was in the industry telling me you can't sell anything for 45. You're being way too loud. Like stop being loud, you know? And that really I listened to that for way too long. So it's like what you tell yourself,

26:58 right? And we are thankful that you got out of that and that you are here where you are right now. Uh not just again, not just for yourself but also for the consumers as well, Kit. Uh I really appreciate this conversation today. Thank you so much for doing this and um absolutely

27:16 and continue being awesome as you are. Absolutely, Filip. Dude, thank you for creating a safe space for me to just voice my passions for our industry here in Minnesota and our consumers. And at the end of the day, a lot of people might disagree with this, but I'm here for the consumers, not cannabis. And of course, I'm here for cannabis, but I put

27:35 consumers first. And you should and everybody. So, thank you for that again. Yes, of course.