Ep 4: Teachable Operators Win — The Shift

with Jessica VanDeWalle · The Shift, a podcast by Headquarters

In Episode 4 of The Shift Podcast, Jessica VanDeWalle of Ethos Cannabis breaks down what it really takes to last in our industry.

In this episode

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Transcript

Auto-generated from the episode audio and lightly edited for readability.

0:00 Ethos is vertically integrated. So, that means you see the cannabis business from cultivation all the way to retail. From your perspective, what's the biggest mistake brands make when trying to scale wholesale relationships?

0:16 Yeah, but I think this was one of my favorite questions that you had. Um, you know, from my side, I think the biggest mistake is brands confusing the access with success, if this makes sense. So, they'll scale the distribution faster than they scale the relationships, right? And instead of being organic and and, you know, they're chasing doors instead of being realistic. So, is our product actually moving here once it's there? That's the question. And I think a lot of people forget to ask that because it's more about the sell-in than the sell-through. Um, it's kind of become that environment organically, which is not what we want to see as a wholesaler. So, for us at Ethos, wholesale isn't about being everywhere, right? Like, for us, it's about being effective. I always tell my team that we want to be in the right place at the right time. Um, you know, and in our mind, the brands that win are the ones that are listening to the retailers, supporting the staff in store, and just, you know, adjusting based on what the group performance metrics are um that our partners see.

1:15 Makes sense. When you say uh at the right place uh the right time, what does that mean for you?

1:22 Uh so, let's use our Massachusetts market as an example. There's a lot of tourism traffic at certain areas of the state. Um, the South Shore, areas that people escape to during the summer season. Uh so, that seasonality approach, whether it's summer or it's winter out in the Berkshires, making sure that you're in the right spot at the right time. So, you're not just selling into a store to sell into the store, but knowing that this is an area that's going to see increased foot traffic. You might get larger orders.

1:50 You might have different needs from these partner accounts uh during these seasonal approaches versus what they have on the the other times of the year that aren't these like high-traffic seasonal areas. So, how can you, you know, still be in the right place at the right time, but still give your partners the things that they need to be successful?

2:09 Got it. So, so pretty much that means assisting your relationships with understanding the market from your perspective, understanding the customer, and then strategizing based on that.

2:20 Yeah, absolutely.

2:21 When talking about that, a lot of people talk about cannabis becoming um um more corporate. Um do you think that's helping the industry mature, or is it slowly killing the culture that made cannabis special in the first place?

2:36 Yeah, I'm I'm not convinced that corporate, you know, corporate as we all kind of know it is the problem. I think that losing the soul is the problem. Um the industry needs that structure to mature. We all know that it it's still a maturing industry, right? But it can't lose its curiosity and authenticity behind who we are. So, you know, when professionalism is used to elevate education, um I think it outcomes of of that piece of education are like bringing the real-world research into the conversation. So, it strengthens that corporate environment of cannabis culture instead of just erasing it. Um and it still maintains that authenticity of who we are, what we like, and how we're community first and foremost.

3:19 Very well said. Uh do you have like a tip of how you maintain the the OG cannabis spirit uh while sort of trying to, you know, uh manage these uh new corporate entrances and uh um the whole professionalism, let's call it that way.

3:37 Yeah, I I I think there's that line between, you know, keeping your community close, knowing who your friends are in the environment, but then still remaining true to yourself. So, you know, I myself included, I'm I'm actually the child of an incarcerated parent from the the war on drugs. So, my dad was um in jail for drugs uh for cannabis. And so, for me uh staying true to myself, where I come from, who I am is part of my culture and my background of my soul in this industry. So, you know, the corporate environment is encompassed from a lot of people that have shifted from other industries that have found cannabis really intriguing. Um and then you still have those who are the OGs in this space that might have come from the legacy background, whether that's themselves or a family member. Um and just kind of remembering where you came from, what you built, why you do what you do. I mean, for me, I do what I do because of him.

4:30 Wow, that that's uh not to be cheap, but I I literally just got chills. That is That is uh That is great. So, so a very big part of you is cannabis itself.

4:42 Yeah, completely.

4:44 Love that. That's amazing. Um all right. So, on the topic of obviously business and and experience. So, you worked your way into a leadership role in a pretty uh some people might not say aggressive, but uh a pretty fast-moving industry. What separates the operators um that actually survived cannabis from the ones that disappear after a year or two, let's say?

5:11 Yeah, and and it's a challenging industry, right? We're we're all well aware of that. So, you know, I think the operators who last are the ones who stay teachable. Um you know, we can all learn something, no matter what the topic is. So, staying teachable, staying open-minded. I mean, cannabis truly moves really fast, especially too fast for ego, if you have one. Uh regulations change, pricing compresses, consumer preferences evolve.

5:38 Um high THC chasers versus terp chasers. So, the teams that survive are adaptable. They're data-driven. Um I think they're willing to change course quickly. They can pivot fast, right? So, if you think you've figured it all out, you're probably already too far behind. Thankfully, we do have a partnership with Thomas Jefferson University where a lot of what we do as an organization is backed from research and education amongst consumers. So, not just internal, but actually taking our products and putting them out into the marketplace, doing studies on anxiety, insomnia, pain management. So, remaining teachable ourselves based on what we learn from the environment that we're already living in and the people that support us on the daily.

6:22 And then obviously as it relates to research and development of new products that we may launch into a market and taking the data that we're learning across the organizations that we're operating in and then everything that we learn through our research partnership with TJU is kind of informing how we stay teachable. So, I think we do have a little bit of a unique identifier as an organization because of our partnership and how lucky we are to to have that deep bench.

6:49 That is that is quite fascinating. How did that relationship with TJU start initially?

6:56 Yeah, it's something that's been going on for years and it started a lot smaller than what it's become now. Initially, it was just kind of like dabbling in the exploratory phases of how can we turn this into research projects and now it's really evolved into what do the people want in here? What are the elements that individuals really want support with? One of the biggest things I think in the industry that we hear or see even from, you know, our own friends and family or or whom have you, are sleep problems. People want to use cannabis to sleep. So, we thought, okay, well, this is the perfect time for us to launch a study to see if there are any legs here surrounding sleep, insomnia.

7:37 What works, what doesn't and we're kind of learning as we go, right? Our information that we receive from the partnership has been wonderful when it comes to relaying back to patients particularly in Pennsylvania, but just across our whole portfolio in in how we can support true consumers of the plant and of the product.

7:59 Amazing. That is truly amazing. The knowledge, the research, the education backed up by data plus the expertise that you guys have all together is is a great win. Wholesale is one of those areas people outside the industry don't fully understand. What's something happening behind the scenes right now that most people, even inside cannabis, are completely underestimating?

8:24 Sure. Yeah, wholesale feels like a different world sometimes, right? We all laugh about that, but so I think for this education is really, you know, that piece that's becoming the most powerful differentiator in wholesale. So, you know, there has been an evolved capacity of the quantity and the quality of education that's being released into the marketplace on any avenue. So, I feel strongly that buyers and budtenders, we all know they're overwhelmed. Uh there's so many options.

8:53 There's so many brands. It's hard to distinguish the what, the why, except for I'll give you a good price on it, right? So, brands that can clearly explain, you know, why their product works and to back it up with the data and training, I think are really earning trust and reliability at this point. So, you know, back to our partnership with TJU, that's kind of why we invest all of this time and care in education and research. So, it really shifts the conversation in my mind from that hype to being credible, which is really the lane that we want to be in.

9:25 If I understand correctly, it's like you literally help out budtenders do their job by taking off a bunch of work off their hands by you doing the majority of the education, writing of information, and so on and so on. And therefore, it sort of leaves the budtenders more room to promote you as a brand itself, right?

9:46 Yeah, and whether we're selling our products our Ethos family of brand products, right? In any one of our own Ethos dispensaries or we're working with one of our retail partners that support us across our portfolio, we want them all to be able to speak as intelligently on the products. So, we want them to have a united front and alignment on educating the consumer or the patient, depending on the market, on that particular product, that SKU, you know, the the benefits of it. Um you know, pointing them into the direction of the right product. So, it's not just about our own team. It's about education in totality from budtenders, whether they're our own partners at our own stores or people that we wholesale to, and then ultimately making sure that that information from the education and the research that we do is trickling down to the people that are consuming the product.

10:38 Sure.

10:39 If you had to predict the next 2 3 years of cannabis, what changes do you think are coming that will completely reshape the how brands, retailers, and distributors work together?

10:52 Wow. Okay, so you know, the next phase of cannabis I think is going to be relationship driven, right? Not reach driven. So, brands will need to act like true partners, uh not being just suppliers of the industry. They'll need to be bringing insight, consistency, continued education. I think that, you know, retailers or retail partners in any capacity will expect smarter support, if that makes sense. Wholesalers have to become more of that strategic connector for the needs of their partners. I kind of spoke about that in the beginning where we're identifying the things that fulfill the needs to our partners to become successful. So, companies that combine operational excellence with just real-world knowledge, right? Data capturing. Those are the ones that are going to win.

11:40 Um cannabis has always been about people. So, patients, consumers, operators, and the communities that we're all operating in. Um I think the industry doesn't need less structure. It needs better leadership. Uh so, better leadership comes from listening, learning, respecting each other. I think it's both the plant and the culture while we all sit here and play the long game, even though cannabis operates so quickly. Um it is a long game.

12:06 Yeah. And what you said at the very beginning was uh maintaining that spirit. I think that the spirit of cannabis itself, if it's held to where it was originally, is going to go really long way. And as you said, it probably will impact the future of cannabis and where it's headed and the overall success in the cannabis industry, if you manage to to keep the spirit up. Um so, yeah. Love that. That's That's amazing.